Curse

Cacheelma · Mar 05, 2008, 11:25 AM // 11:25

I'd say it's confusing for pretty much everybody when a skill works differently in pvp and pve.

And in Ragnarok, most skills don't "work" differently in PvP and PvE; skills that deal less damage to humanoid creatures ALWAYS deal less damage to humanoid creatures (players included). And when a skill would be overpowered in PvP, the dev just won't let you use it in PvP area. And trust me, these skills are a minority.

I don't think I need to start talking about how irrelevance "balanceness of skills" is in Ragnarok Online, a game in which your equipments PLAY THE MOST IMPORTANT ROLES in PvP.

And some skills in Ragnarok got nerfed due to pvp as well. Backstab anyone?

kilkelo · Mar 05, 2008, 04:00 PM // 16:00

Well at least now we're given a good 2 years to max out our titles. But I guess that's the point of EotN's HoM anyways, keeping us busy until 2010 (or whenever).

Scary · Mar 05, 2008, 04:05 PM // 16:05

Quote:

Well at least now we're given a good 2 years to max out our titles. But I guess that's the point of EotN's HoM anyways, keeping us busy until 2010 (or whenever).

Uhmm.. And in thats a good thing to your opinion ???
PFFFFfffffff only people that are already a zombie or braindead could be
glad with..Well at least they give us 2 years...

O well live and let live they say.,..

Masao · Mar 05, 2008, 05:48 PM // 17:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cacheelma

Name me a MMORPG game that doesn't have what you called "PvE balances to mirror PvP" please.

9Dragons.

Heals reduced by amount and time active, active and smash physical attacks reduced in damage, Chi Kung (i.e. magic) reduced so that you can't one hit another player.

And I just have to lol @ all the people complaining about "grind" in Guild Wars. Obviously they haven't played many MMOs.

Razz Thom · Mar 05, 2008, 05:57 PM // 17:57

It is downhill for some but for others it is still fresh and fun. Stop complaining because you are tired of it and just go away gracefully. There are still actual NEW players in everyday, give them some time to get just as tired as you have.

doudou_steve · Mar 05, 2008, 06:12 PM // 18:12

Guild wars never *jumped the shark* players are just never satisfied

Players whine nm is too easy, Anet gives Hm-> players still want more because they are not satisfied

Players ask for more balance, Anet changes some skills-> players whine again because they are not satisfied

Players ask to have controlled henchies(heroes), Anet introduces heroes -> players whine because it's destroying coop.

Players ask for titles, Anet introduces titles-> players whine because now guild wars is all about grinding.

My point is it's not Anet who is destroying guild wars, why would they do that? If someone destroys gameplay, it's us, the players who can just whine on guru because of *insert a reason here* is too *insert reason 2 here*

Oh and please, stop bitching Ursan. Before it, rare persons could enter the UW or FoW because they weren't the class needed or didn't have the build required. And i prefer Ursaan Noobs than Elitism obsidian armored players saying they are the best.

On that, good day everyone.

And, unless you're a complete idiot, don't flame me, i said my opinion.

Alicendre · Mar 05, 2008, 07:19 PM // 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masao

And I just have to lol @ all the people complaining about "grind" in Guild Wars. Obviously they haven't played many MMOs.

Guild Wars is not a MMO and was advertised as skill>time.

When it turned into time>skill for PvE, it "jumped the shark" for me.

CHannum · Mar 05, 2008, 09:27 PM // 21:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alicendre

When it turned into time>skill for PvE, it "jumped the shark" for me.

Only it never did.

People mistake their personal lack of self control and perspective for actual game wide changes.

Other than the handful of title track skills (and, really, we know we're only talking about *one* of these skills) there isn't a single ability in the game that is any harder to get than any of the other single abilities. You don't actually need any of the title track skills to play any of the main game, and with tuned builds, there isn't anywhere in the game you can't go without these skills that actually require minimal time to get decent.

So when did time played (beyond increasing your knowledge of the game, i.e. increasing the fabled skill) have anything to do with your ability to actually play the game?

Heck, even if we assume that Ursan really is so overpowered that it's really the only way to do the 3% of the game made up of the endgame areas, are you really so lacking in judgment that you'll let 3% of game determine that the other 97% is borked? Or decide that the one skill needed for the endgame areas that would take a good, dedicated old time player a weekend to max out should determine that the other *years* of gameplay you got out of the game are borked?

Masao · Mar 05, 2008, 09:41 PM // 21:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alicendre

Guild Wars is not a MMO and was advertised as skill>time.

When it turned into time>skill for PvE, it "jumped the shark" for me.

Do you even realize the fact that you don't have to spend much time to grind out a title?

You can get a maxed EoTN title in a couple weeks casually playing or farming points.

Also, you clearly don't know what MMO means.

PvE is a joke and Ursan is the one thing that actually evens it out for several classes, even if it really does need a slight nerf to keep people from even trying new builds. Ursan can be maxed in a few weeks for a casual player, possibly a weekend or two of playing for someone who knows what they're doing and doesn't get distracted while farming rep.

That is not a grind unless you have the attention span of an ADHD kid hyped up on Ritalin.

Kula · Mar 05, 2008, 10:00 PM // 22:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by doudou_steve

Guild wars never *jumped the shark* players are just never satisfied

Players whine nm is too easy, Anet gives Hm-> players still want more because they are not satisfied

Players ask for more balance, Anet changes some skills-> players whine again because they are not satisfied

Players ask to have controlled henchies(heroes), Anet introduces heroes -> players whine because it's destroying coop.

Players ask for titles, Anet introduces titles-> players whine because now guild wars is all about grinding.

My point is it's not Anet who is destroying guild wars, why would they do that? If someone destroys gameplay, it's us, the players who can just whine on guru because of *insert a reason here* is too *insert reason 2 here*

Oh and please, stop bitching Ursan. Before it, rare persons could enter the UW or FoW because they weren't the class needed or didn't have the build required. And i prefer Ursaan Noobs than Elitism obsidian armored players saying they are the best.

On that, good day everyone.

And, unless you're a complete idiot, don't flame me, i said my opinion.

Yeah, it is possible that Anet was overwhelmed with all the complaints and suggestions from every different kind of player out there. Then maybe in the end they just threw up their arms, gave up, and went with the basic PvE grind. PvE focus was their safest bet since they wouldn't make any profit if they catered to the 'vocal minority'.

You make a good point.

************************************************** *
=EDIT=

Forgot to go back on topic and add when my shark jumped:

When I looked at the long list of titles to grind and said to myself, "hmm, that won't take long at all!" in a sarcastic tone.

Masao · Mar 05, 2008, 10:06 PM // 22:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kula

Yeah, it is possible that Anet was overwhelmed with all the complaints and suggestions from every different kind of player out there. Then maybe in the end they just threw up their arms, gave up, and went with the basic PvE grind. PvE focus was their safest bet since they wouldn't make any profit if they catered to the 'vocal minority'.

You make a good point.

Word.

ANet has no reason to cater to a minority when the majority is content with PvE grind, and when the majority of self-proclaimed PvPers are just glorified weeaboos who think they're good at the game because they can Sinspike an ele.

Profit margin = the greater good. ANet has their priorities straight.

I'd be more concerned if they didn't.

Bryant Again · Mar 05, 2008, 10:22 PM // 22:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by doudou_steve

Oh and please, stop bitching Ursan. Before it, rare persons could enter the UW or FoW because they weren't the class needed or didn't have the build required. And i prefer Ursaan Noobs than Elitism obsidian armored players saying they are the best.

The trinity was not the most efficient way of play in the least. It was the one build that "worked," but not well. It was hella slow and incredibly risky. It was just very easy to use, and people preferred that instead of actually researching speedy and effective builds.

Also note that what you're saying applies largely to pugs, since any profession is able to excel in any part of the game with varied builds. Unless, of course, you're stuck in a guild of idiots who don't think outside the Obs. tank.

Zam Fear · Mar 06, 2008, 01:49 AM // 01:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by StormDragonZ

In case you're unaware of the phrase "jumping the shark", then let me explain what it means.

Jumping The Shark: It's a moment. A defining moment when you know that your favorite show or program has reached its peak. That instant that you know from now on... it's all downhill. Some call it the climax, but it's been coined the phrase "jumping the shark." From that moment on, the program will simply never be the same.

Jumping the shark applies not only to TV, but also music, film, even everyday life.

So I ask you all: Has Guild Wars jumped the shark?

Yes. Right after pre-searing

Seriously, it was sad to leave that lovely world behind . . . .

Still, I've played many thousands of hours and am well-pleased with all I've gotten out of the game. My time in game decreased quite a bit with the early announcement of GW2 and the accompaning sense that my GW1 achievements were somehow less meaningful, notwithstanding the possible benefits from the Hall of Monuments.

. . .

freaky naughty · Mar 06, 2008, 02:19 AM // 02:19

GW never jumped the shark for me. All those time > skill arguments are completely untrue. Titles aren't required they're just there for elitists and people who get bored with the game. The only places where you actually need skill are pvp and the skill > time does apply to that aspect of the game. PvE is easy anyways do you really need UB to beat the game? No, so don't complain about rep titles.

Hyper Cutter · Mar 06, 2008, 03:13 AM // 03:13

I have to say the announcement of GW2, mostly for the "ha ha, the world goes to hell within decades" factor of Movement of the World...

Zonzai · Mar 06, 2008, 05:44 AM // 05:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkobra

Prophecies was good. Then it was all downhill from there.

I mostly agree with this. Excluding the assassin, I didn't like the PvP effects of the new classes and I hated the Cantha PvE. Also, EOTN is just a major grind fest. And I really don't like that they made you grind for some of the most powerful PvE skills that you can get.

I like PvE AND PvP but I don't like grinding. Why is it that with every release the PvP got worse and the PvE got more grind?

I did however enjoy most of the PvE missions in Nightfall.

So, yeah I'd say that in my opinion the shark was jumped just before Factions was released.

Striken7 · Mar 06, 2008, 06:04 AM // 06:04

"Jumping the Shark" obviously only applies to players who have played Guild Wars since the beginning. If a viewer only started watching Happy Days on the very episode where he jumped the shark, would they be aware that what they seeing was a drastic change in the show? Of course not.

That being the case, it's clear that the moment that Guild Wars jumped the shark was when titles were introduced. Factions was a failure of a chapter. The story was short and poorly written, the game mechanics introduced were awful, and the new professions should never have been conceived. For the players who were there from the beginning, and actually liked the original concepts behind the game, there was a general feeling that their faith had been misplaced.

So what was introduced, in an attempt to recapture a faltering "audience", that was a drastic and radical change to the games basic principles? Titles. Now we officially had grind. Something for players to shoot for, something to keep them playing, long enough to buy the next chapter. Nightfall repeated this pattern, but EotN took it to a whole new level. An entire expansion dedicated to nothing but grind; enough to last for over 2 years. Not only that, but now these titles gave players who did grind advantages over those who didnt. Skill > time played was officially removed from PvE, and titles were the first step in changing GW to a grind based game whose only goal was to hold the attention of it's players with monotonous and repetitive tasks, long enough for them to make a little more money off of us.

That is when they "jumped the shark".

Scary · Mar 06, 2008, 07:48 AM // 07:48

Quote:

It is downhill for some but for others it is still fresh and fun. Stop complaining because you are tired of it and just go away gracefully. There are still actual NEW players in everyday, give them some time to get just as tired as you have.

So... what you say is that all the old school players have to shut up becouse
there are new players. ofcoures "bonehead" .....may I say that..??

There are new players.... there wil be next week, next month,next year.
But to the opinion of a lot of players who play this game for such a long time
GW hasnt be what it used to be.
AND NO..... not only due to the fact that they are playing it that long.
But also due to the changes that Anet is making instead of listening to what the community has to say.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masao
And I just have to lol @ all the people complaining about "grind" in Guild Wars. Obviously they haven't played many MMOs.

Indeed we are complaining... GW wasnt a grinding game as it started..
so WHY make it one as it is now.

fgarvin · Mar 06, 2008, 03:24 PM // 15:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by genofreek

I hate that nagging "missed opportunity" feeling.

I've been playing since the beginning, but I have not been able to play very much (maybe 15 hours) following the birth of my son six months ago. You've put my feelings into words perfectly. Missing the double rep points weekend killed me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcrayon

For historical context and to broaden your general knowledge, you should go and do some research on the origins of the phrase "Jumping the Shark".
Hint: In the tv-series from which the phrase is coined, someone did quite literally jump a shark.

Research? What research...I watched The Fonz make the jump when it first aired. (yes, I'm older than most GW players)

Whisper Evenstar · Mar 06, 2008, 07:15 PM // 19:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Striken7

titles were the first step in changing GW to a grind based game whose only goal was to hold the attention of it's players with monotonous and repetitive tasks, long enough for them to make a little more money off of us.

That is when they "jumped the shark".

It is my opinion that this is just not true. Had titles NOT been implemented there would be 2 kinds of players:
- those that kept playing because they enjoy the game
- those that grown tired of the game and moved on to something else

With the introduction of titles you have 3 types of players:
- those that keep playing because they enjoy the game
- those that move on to something else
- those who keep playing only to grind titles (I personally don't know any people like this)

If you are in the 3rd group and you finish all of the possible (and may I state OPTIONAL) grind-based titles, you will then fall into one of the two remaining categories - which are the same categories that would exist in a game without titles. Net effect - no real impact.

Oh yeah, I should also mention the fact that keeping you in the game longer makes no additional money for Anet since there is no subscription. New content is the only way to make more money off of us, regardless of what type of player you are (from above).